Okay, so far, we have Tehrag, Kaylee, and I for this one, but we could definitely use more writers 🙂

The RP "Trails of Blood" is lacking plot and direction, but fortunately, its still within range of being saved. Summary:

Kaylee finds a freshly-destroyed woodland village, with no survivors. She sees Crow at the center of the chaos, engaged in some ritual, and he freaks out at the sight of her and runs off. She chases after him, and is stopped by Hazel, who takes a bit of her fur, but otherwise leaves her unharmed. Tehrag's Juniper is just hanging around, watching.

We discussed in the chat how the story needs an antagonist, and characters with their own motivations - namely, motivation based on how the antagonist has affected them, directly or indirectly. (And I really don't want to play the antagonist again. I'm tired of playing bad guys 😛 )

Idea One: Crow, still in training and adjusting to his abilities, has a mentor that happens to be a dark-priest, the one responsible for the slaughter. He trusts him, only because of his own naivete and inexperience. If I play this dark-priest, I'll need help with disciples and other villains that this guy has convinced and/or manipulated. If not, the call for this antagonist has to be a cunning one, and a legitimately trustworthy character.

Anyone have ideas to expand upon this one, or an entirely new and different idea? All are welcome!

I'll do my best to help you with ideas, but I really can't play the antagonist for you. I'm already playing two horde leaders and their followers! 😉

For every character I'd suggest coming up with some short and long term goals. What do they each want to achieve, and how are they going to get there? Why does Crow want to be trained by this priest? What will that do for him? Why does the priest need Crow? What is he manipulating his disciples for?

I think it helps if you ignore specifying a characters as good or villainous. Nobody really does stuff just 'for teh evulz', unless they're actually insane or there's something really disturbing them emotionally.

Take Claudia, the leader of my horde. She's killed her sister, abandoned her father and taken her supporters into invading Mossflower with plans to enslave whoever she can, build up her army and re-conquer the Northlands. Murder, levying war, slavery, authoritarian rule of beasts considered lesser than she. All very evil sounding on the face of it, but I did not create her with 'being evil' in mind, nor do I write her as a 'bad beast' as someone commented on the chatbox the other day. I write her as a person with fears and hopes, things that make her happy and things she disapproves of. The things she does that are 'evil' are not seen as evil by her, obviously. She thinks herself justified in killing her sister because her sister betrayed her. She thinks slavery is acceptable because she grew up with vermin being subservient to cats as the norm. She wouldn't understand if you told her all beasts were equal, because it does not match her worldview, it does not match her background or the culture of her homeland.

Another example would be Fiasco, my feral cat who is the Taggerung of a Juska tribe. On the face of it, he is brutish, prone to violence, arrogant and superior as well as incredibly moody. At a glance, he would just be another 'bad beast' with no redeeming features. There's a lot more going on with him under the surface though. He's big, but actually barely out of his teens. He's mentally immature, and hasn't socialised much with beasts of his age. His closest friend is a veteran warrior ferret who's a generation older than him. He has emotional issues because he seeks the attention, approval and affection of his adoptive father. His surrogate mother is dead, and that has also left his mark on him, since his original birth parents are also absent from his life. To complicate matters further, he's been made Taggerung, a massive responsibility for someone so young and lacking in a lot of warrior experience. I don't write him as just a thug that can smash things. He's just a big kid with some social troubles, and his 'family' of Juska tribesbeasts have to be very patient to keep him out of too much trouble and let him grow and develop.

So when you write your antagonist, give him some good reasons for why he behaves like he does. If he is cunning, why is he so? Was there a time when he was more idealistic and naive, or has he grown up having to lie and be deceitful just to survive? If he has followers, what do they think they are getting out of following him? Are they afraid of him? Do they like him, or revere him?

Just some things to think about, I might post here again if I think of anything else. Feel free to ask me about this if there's anything that you want to talk about. 😉

To build on Gerns suggestion, an antagonist can also be evil or brutish; however, there /must/ be a reason why.

Take Gulfang, the wolverine diplomat I'm playing in "Where Wildcats Once Ruled". He's brutish and frankly terrifying, a savage to the core with an intelligent disposition. He has no qualms about manipulating the situation and being downright creepy. However, there's a reason for that; The Crag, Gulfang's homeland, is a hostile place, and life is often decided by who is the strongest. Gulfang is not a warrior, and he had to develop methods to stay alive compared to his brothers and fellow wolverines.

He also definitely wants something, and is brutally determined to get Hellebore's aid.

So, in short, villains can be evil; but they should have definitive reasons for doing so other than "I need a villain!"

…So...any ideas? For an antagonist in this scenario?

I think it helps if you ignore specifying a characters as good or villainous. Nobody really does stuff just 'for teh evulz', unless they're actually insane or there's something really disturbing them emotionally.

(Or unless you're a Redwall villain. When I look back on the books, I realize how one-sided and racist (or 'speciesist'?) they are, lol. Every single one of them, with barely two to three exceptions, did it ALL for teh evulz. And were still thoroughly enjoyable. 🙂 )

For every character I'd suggest coming up with some short and long term goals. What do they each want to achieve, and how are they going to get there? Why does Crow want to be trained by this priest? What will that do for him? Why does the priest need Crow? What is he manipulating his disciples for?

If I had to pick a goal for the guy, it would be in the idea of destroying a person's spirit/soul, instead of just the body, by going to disgusting lengths in the name of powah; Crow wouldn't have a choice, since he's the lowest-ranked and a newbie, but the priest is one of the more-experienced, older beasts, and probably chose him; and every clan would want to exploit Crow anyway, probably just for leverage over another if not for his own abilities.

But I like Dusk's idea for a baddy better than this one, he just hasn't posted it here yet. Maybe this one could still be in this RP, or another 8/

(Or unless you're a Redwall villain. When I look back on the books, I realize how one-sided and racist (or 'speciesist'?) they are, lol. Every single one of them, with barely two to three exceptions, did it ALL for teh evulz. And were still thoroughly enjoyable. 🙂 )

I don't think many of them did what they did for the sake of being bad. You've made me curious, so I made a list categorising the basic motivations of several villains. At first I had categories like 'Revenge' and 'Insanity', but a lot of villains had a revenge motive or went insane as the books went on, so I dropped those to make it easier to read. This doesn't include everyone, there's a bunch of minor villains that I've skipped for brevity's sake. There may be some overlap here, so I went with what I thought was the closest basic motivation.

Conquest/Power

Badrang
Bane
Barranca
Cluny
Damug
Gruven
Ironbeak
Kurda
Raga Bol
Rasconza
Razzid Wearet
Ruggan Bor
Slagar
Swatt Sixclaw
Tramun Clogg
Tsarmina
Ungatt Trunn
Vilaya
Zwilt

Treasure

Badredd
Ferahgo
Gulo
Marlfoxes
Korvus Skurr
Ublaz Mad-Eyes
Vilu Daskar

Already in Power

Bowfleg
Gabool
Malkariss
Riggu Felis
Sawney Rath
Urgan Nagru
Verdauga

The 'Already in Power' category is a catch-all for villains that started off in positions of authority, so their individual motivations are based on keeping their power, with the exception of Verdauga who already starts off terminally ill and as such is more concerned about his charming daughter. The 'Conquest/Power' category covers a lot of different things, but boils down to either wanting to take over land or property, or become in charge of a group. 'Treasure' covers magic or mythic items, important cultural objects or just the usual booty and slaves if you're a corsair.

Now don't get me wrong, pretty much everyone on this list is either a killer, liar, thief, tyrant or any combination of those things. They still treat other people terribly and often get some kind of sadistic pleasure out of it, which already tells us a lot of the villains have some strange mental issues. However I still stand by my point. Everybody here wants something. Nobody here has the superobjective throughout the book of 'just be evil for the sake of it'. These villains do evil things in order to get something out of it. Power, treasure, revenge, catharsis, whatever it is.

And now, a relevant video: http://youtu.be/7-Op7Jcg1dU?t=35s

😉

"Some strange mental issues". Huh. I guess we can add Adolf Hitler, Vlad the Impaler, Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Pope John XII, Caligula, instigators of racist genocide, Josef Frtizl, Miyazaki Tsutomu, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, and that woman that adopted babies so she could smother 'em to the list of the "Simply Misunderstood". Silly me, they on'y slaughtered moi family for power n' money, after all! Nuts, if only oi'd thought t'not be standin' in the poor beasties' way. I'ma give that Hitler fellow a BIG hug RIGHT NOW ❤

But no, seriously, I get where you're coming from, and I fully understand what an antagonist is and does. (Even though personally, I must confess my love for "Evul" Disney villains, with simple motivations, awesome songs about how evil they are, and tons of enthusiasm - and Deadpool) BUT…

...I just need some ideas on a new one for an RP. Preferably played by someone else.
Because I've been writing and playing bad guys for ten years (Eleven come January!) now. I'm kind of… baddied-out. T__T I just wanna be a hero! I'm SO MISUNDERSTOOD.

goes to depressingly eat some ice cream and stare at the Enchiridion in its glass case I jus' wanna be loved…

I was joking, Gerns. And as I said, I got your point. I'll admit that I'm not sure what you want me to do with it…all I said is that I need an antagonist for a story that I don't want to play. If I came across as cranky, then I apologize; I've had little sleep in the past few months.

But thanks for your input. : )

For the record, a good number of those people you just mentioned, they reached insanity at the peak of the power… Hitler, the most noted as such. You can tell from how his writing style changed and his penstrokes.

headdesk

He wasn't insane. Just suffered from CLD: Chronic Lack-of-hugs Disorder. I would have totally given him a hug.

I think if nasty people got hugged more, they'd be less inclined to do nasty things later.

With the obvious exceptions being Deadpool, Richard, and the Lich…

in that case … hugz Red  😉

ish hugged Whew, I needed that. ❤  (Farewell, violent tendencies towards computers and paperwork!)

Back to topic, though: for the given scenario, already written, what would be a working antagonist? I realize we're kind of working backwards here, by writing the guy/gal AFTER the deeds done in the first post - but uh, it's all I got T_T

I had an idea.  From your first posts Red, you showed that the rats held great disgust toward woodlanders.  You also called it a sacrifice when the young rat was in the village.  Maybe we can turn this so that the only thing driving the rats is tradition.  Maybe, in order to be seen as an adult in the tribe, a young rat must give some great sacrifice to their god.  This rat is just never in the right place and he doesn't really want to do it but he has to in order to be considered an adult.  Maybe in the end, he could turn his life around and join the woodlanders to stop this evil practice.
We would need many more players but it was all I could think of.

Actually Tehrag, that's pretty brilliant o_o It would raise a lot of good moral dilemmas. But you're right, we would need a lot more people. We would need characters to play Juska and non-Juska. (I just don't like telling people what to play, makes me feel like a dictator ^.^;;)

Actually, I think if we had three or four more people, we could have one or two more on each side.  Here's a list of who I see that we would need.

-  Goodbeast who finds the note left by Juniper and Kaylee and warns the abbey.

  • Goodbeast(s) who come from the abbey to help
  • Leader of the tribe of rats
  • other tribal member(s)

Tell me what you think.  We could make most of the characters static/background characters who played very small roles in the whole scheme of things.

traditional sacrifices. Sounds interesting to see it play out like that, and I don't think, based on that idea, we really need to start over, or omit anything.

-  Goodbeast who finds the note left by Juniper and Kaylee and warns the abbey.

  • Goodbeast(s) who come from the abbey to help
  • Leader of the tribe of rats
  • other tribal member(s)

I'd say the goodbeasts that warn the abbey and come to help also need a reason for being around, other than to simply stop the rituals. For instance, maybe someone left a research tome on the tribes and finds that what they're doing isn't just for giggles, and from that, maybe come to a solution or alternative; maybe someone else's home and lives are at risk from simply being in the area while all of this goes down. Or maybe the Juska just need to be slain. (Lots of maybes!)

To keep things simple, I'd use just the Juska tribes exclusively under the Pike banner…they're unspecified, leaving anyone else free to make up the clan, symbols, culture, and hierarchies and all that.

(Quick J-clan template, for future reference:

Nation Banner: (Pike, Spider, Adder, Owl)

Clan name:

Leader:

Second-in-Command:

Shaman/Priest/Seer:

Symbol/Sigil:  )

Maybe we don't need anything from the abbey at all.  We could make Kaylee and Juniper come across a village where creatures are worried about the rats and then they help the villagers come together to defend themselves.  A lot of other things could happen in a story like that.

So many maybes! So glad we got this ball rolling! (You guys are the best.) Would two goodbeasts, one of them presumably non-violent, take the chance or the risk of having the villagers fight the most powerful Juska group under the Pike banner, instead of evacuating them?

Depends on how stupid they are.  😛

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