Alternative Military Strategies?

  • Hi, I'm new here and to the Redwall books. I began reading Redwall for the first time since reading a borrowed book back in middle school. Well, I'm at the part where Cluny is making his first attack on the Abbey and have been wondering if you guys think the Redwallian Defense Forces (if yall have another term for them, we can use it) could have made a successful pre-emptive strike on Cluny's Horde @ St. Ninian's Church. I looked at the map and have made out several hit-and-run type attacks using archers, but was curious if anyone has thought about this before. Sorry if this topic is in the wrong area.

  • Hey there Bro Anthony, and welcome to Redwall's Legacy!

    In my humble opinion the, the short answer to your "preemptive strike" query would be "No".

    Remember: the Redwallers were at the time of Cluny's attack completely unschooled in the art of war.  Additionally, they were gravely ill-equipped for armed conflict.  They had to make their own weapons from farm implements, and subsequently be schooled in their correct use by the few friends of the abbey who actually had fighting experience.  As far as available archery equipment, as far as I remember the best that was available was weak little field-mouse bows which shot reed arrows.  (Woefully inadequate against even the most meagre armor.)

    In contrast, Cluny's horde was well tempered by battle.  They were well equipped, had decent to good fighting skills, and were generally much more physically and mentally prepared to Kill or Be Killed.

    A strike launched on Ninian's by the Redwallers [mostly mice, remember] at any time of day would likely have turned into a bloodbath on the part of the woodlanders.  An excercise in deadly futility, if you will.  The mice, knowing that they were unprepared to fight would have likely ended up taking the all or nothing approach of a disturbed mother bird.  They would fight like demons, but would likely have made the mistake of pushing their offense too far into the enemy, where they would quickly be separated and slaughtered.

    Now, had the Redwallers been supplemented by even a handful of warlike beasts such as otters, squirrels, or hares, the chances for success would be much higher.  When we examine the vermin's position at St. Ninians, we see that it was relatively neutral.  Not a strong position, but not weak, either.  One can take a million and one different approaches to assaulting such a position, many of which would clean house while leaving the friendly strike force comparatively unscathed.

  • Hm, perhaps my bias against Cluny kept me from seeing the dire military condition of the Redwallans. I considered (switch to reality) George Washington's hit-and-run approach (along with strive to be a better more moral people) against the muchly superior British forces in the Revolutionary War. Wanted to copy the mindset, but as you put it they weren't even ready for a hit-and-run-away-screaming attack in the dead of night.

    Of the same opinion though, after the Redwallans successful defense of the first raid by Cluny? Maybe a handpicked group chosen by Constance and Matthias to lead a harassment tactical force for a slap in the face attack then scurry back to Redwall? The momentum change, along with being somewhat leaderless and disorganized would play in Matthias' favor no doubt.

  • Yeah, I see where you're coming from with G. Washington and all…

    As far as your second idea:  I think I could see that working.  Matthias and crew would have to know pretty much exactly what they were gonna do, and then go forth and do exactly what they had determined and no more.  Too many times what one combatant sees as an extra opportunity to strike the foe will turn into a royal screw-over because of some unforseen factor which will end up throwing the whole operation into a wild snafu for the strikers.

    If I were Constance, and such a scheme as yours had been set upon, I would strongly advise against taking any "harassment" into the enemy camp.  Strike along the edges and do something like [attempt to] quietly eliminate sentry picket lines [cliche?] before getting the whole Redwall crew the heck out of Dodge.  Once again, lots of fun different approaches to take, there.  🙂

  • Yeah, I guess they were pretty screwed from the get-go. Who has a huge castle and doesn't think it will need to be defended??? Shame on the leaders of the Abbey for being ignorant. Must keep reading.

  • Hahaha. Ignorant, perhaps, but probably more naive. And in my opinion that's not so bad, actually. The world would be a lot nicer if everyone were that way.

  • I would agree with Seth…  Naive.  Much like the majority of the Western world...  But I won't even climb on that soapbox.  xD  Let's just say that both Sweden and Switzerland got the whole defense thing dead on.

    Enjoy the rest of the series, Anthony.  🙂

  • Switzerland rules. They have howitzers trailing passenger jets as they take off and land. I don't know exactly what that's for, but even if it's purely psychological, it works. lol

  • That's just amazing. I'll take a passenger jet there any day 😛

  • I'm pretty sure Hitlers decision to not invade Switzerland had nothing to do with their defenses. And I like how the assumption that the Western world is naive, meanwhile Europe is crawling to China for bailouts to prevent collapse of their socialistic economies.
    Besides, did those radically-right policies on guns come before or after the radically-left took over Europe in the 1930s?

    We can point fingers at examples of stupidity and superiority in just about every nations history. Let's not save all the stupidity examples for the western (america) world.

    About the book though, the Sparra's are friggin crazy.

  • I'll PM you and clear up the little misunderstanding here, Anthony.  I guess in the future it would generally be wise of me to keep my big overeager mouth shut, or do my best to word what I say with a little more impunity.  🙂

    And yes, the Sparras are delightfully kooky.

  • I don't think I have actually ever seen a Sparra character on an ROC before.
        Sad day 😞 Someone needs to change that.

  • Ha! Well don't look at me! I have a falcon and a crow! I am set with avian characters!

    Voles, hedgehogs, and moles don't seem to be that popular either.  We don't, presently, have seem to have any hares either.  Or at least not from what I have seen. I've been thinking of making a hare and a hedgehog- but accents are something I am terrible with . Not to mention, I am in the process of developing a broader range of personalities for my characters so that they seem less similar to one another.  I had a couple that felt like too much of the same. xD


    My apologies for replying off-topic but I don't have anything to contribute aside from repeating what has already been said. 😛

  • The sparra's are complete nutcases (at least in Redwall). I wouldn't trust them for anything. I wanted to make an Owl character, but I didn't like my character not being able to use his arms for hand2hand combat and such.

  • It could buffet things with it's wings, that's kinda hand-to-hand.  Though I think in the long run whoever he's fighting will win.  I thought the sparra's were funny, and a rather good addition to the Redwall saga.

  • They are funny, but crazy. I loved the 'Kileeet! Killeeet!' parts. Finished Redwall btw, starting Mossflower now, @ ch16.

  • Awesome, happy reading 😄 I like reading them in chronological order myself lol

  • Well, I had just started Mattimeo when I read that Mossflower was actually a prequel to Redwall.

    Abt the Characters, I can't decide what I'd rather post. I'm thinking a flying squirell would be fun strictly for air dropping via trustworthy bird (Cap'n Snow perhaps? Although he never made an oath not to eat squirrels, just shrews and mice I believe). My idea is infiltrating some fortress via airdrop (glide down) and then use a miniature poison-tipped arrow to assasinate someone. Problem is, I don't believe a flying squirrel is big enough to carry a bow (or crossbow) that can penetrate 2 leaves.

  • That would be awesome too, I don't think anybody has made a flying squirrel as of yet 🙂

  • I saw one once, but I don't remember him being RPed. 😛

    Something that did show up was a creature called the sandfish. Absolutely amazing lizard. And it has tons of desert/beach warfare implications.
    RL and I created a tribe of them for a thread way, way, way back when for a thread we never finished.

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